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Part II of Part I Making a Next Gen MMO:

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  • Part II of Part I Making a Next Gen MMO:

    Haven’t read Part I of Part I yet? Check it out!

    This is going to be even longer, have less pictures, and even less retard references (ha!)

    To recap, we now have a non-retarded/semi experienced staff focused on making fun content that works. As we discussed in Part I we also have brainstormed ideas and asked ourselves “Is this going to be fun?” Let’s dive into brainstorming a bit more. Obviously, we don’t just want a couple Devs coming up with all the ideas whether they’re experienced or not. Hire a polling group to locate and ask gamers what was their favorite/least favorite feature and what they thought was the most revolutionary feature of each MMO they played. I’ll give some quick examples off the top of my head of the type of results this type of activity might produce:

    Good Stuff:
    -UO: Character ownership/customization, skill system (understandable charc development), travel, player housing, seers with in game events/tournaments, easy crafting system, boats, treasure hunting, city/dungeon system, mounted warfare, notoriety system, community focus
    -EQ: Race/Class combos, mid-range raid content, decent support staff
    -DAOC: The design basics for a working siege system, decent engine/pre-launch testing
    -SB: Massive content, completely customizable UI, improved siege warfare, player built housing/cities/nations, decent race/class balance, NPC driven crafting system, resource based NPC run mining system, intriguing community/politicking, open ended PvP, great group driven end game system
    -WoW: Easy to learn quest system, passive leveling, massive raid content, instanced battlegrounds, interesting crafting rewards, a system built to crackdown on 3rd party hacks, launched a finished product
    -GW: Instant travel, combat skill system, dueling system with notoriety and rewards, no monthly fee

    Bad Stuff: (notice this list is longer)
    -Every MMO released has lacked a good system for Dev to Player communication.
    -Every game minus WoW and DAOC has had massive system (crashes) and security (hacks, bugs, 3rd party) issues.
    -Every game minus UO(only at launch), SB, and GW has had a serious lack of vision and innovation
    -Every game has had customer service that rivals the “we don’t give a fuck about you attitude” of most cell phone companies
    -UO: Poor staff development (the entire support staff was made up of volunteers), no vision or end goal for the game
    -EQ: The game was a giant pointless time sync, bad race/class balance, no community
    -DAOC: Stupid mounted travel system, the siege and realm warfare systems were a very lackluster and poorly done attempt at an end game, horrid race/class balance, no support, no events
    -SB: Travel time was absurd, PvM was deplorable and shouldn’t have existed, no short term PvP goals, no small scale PvP, pointless end game for small groups of players, poor city maintenance/siege/building balance and rewards, very bad/corrupt support
    -WoW: Shiny hunting time sync with no end game goals, a very poorly done skill/leveling/charc development system, the worst race/class balance of any game ever launched, idiotic mounted/ship based travel system, no community, no events
    -GW: A serious lack of content in every facet of the game, an end game that is only attainable if you had a set amount of people online, no community, twinked class balance

    The best way to make a game fun is to remove any time syncs. Yes I know, it’s the industry standard way to waste people’s time and keep that 15$ rolling in. Here’s a better idea though, make your game interesting with plenty of fun things to do instead! Let’s get specific. Three of the biggest in game issues that affect all players are travel, race/class balance, and end game content/goals.

    Travel:
    GW and UO have the best solutions here. In UO you could mark a rune to pretty much anywhere and recall to that spot whenever you wanted to. However, this caused some territorial issues and needed to be refined if you plan to add some sort of nation/city content. GW also has a great solution that doesn't involve riding around on some mount that wastes 15 minutes of my life. You can instantly teleport to the nearest NPC run city of the area you want to get to. Furthermore, if you implement a GW type system you could add a modified zone specific SB type system where players can summon group mates to them. So for example, if you’re in Donkeypunch Dungeon fighting Tunkles and you need an additional player, all they would have to do is click the nearest town > teleport > load into the zone > get summoned to the group.

    This would work great for PvM but would need to be tweaked for PvP. In PvP scenarios it would need to be more difficult to travel so that smaller groups could compete against larger ones without being insta-zerged. This is where mounts come in. Allow flying, swimming, land mounts that players can use to book it to their buddies who need help. What’s a fun distance to travel? Maybe 5 mins? So build the world to have a NPC run city or waypoints every 5 or so mins worth of travel.

    Race/Class Balance:
    For the love of god, having 3,938.7 race/class/skill combos is not a selling point and makes the game unplayable due to a serious lack of balance!!! It may look good on a bulleted features list but once players get in game they spend as much time being frustrated with these systems as anything. This can be fixed pretty easily but would take a consistent effort (particularly during beta). There must be a character balance team that is paid to watch people play and play the game themselves to see how everything balances out. With every game currently out other than GW this process consists of a collaboration of devs arguing over why the charc they play at home needs to be overpowered. This needs to be handled by a team that spends there time watching players and learning what is fun for the players and what isn't fun for them. Let’s cover what people do and don’t like about this:

    -People hate not understanding what they’re doing. They freak out about making a wrong choice and having to start over. So they’re forced to waste more time reading forums and hoping that the post they read wasn’t made by some wacked out 37 year old wearing a helmet while he roleplays a dark elf female iwow. Furthermore, people don’t want to have to do the pick and choose your path bullshit (that can't be undone) five different times through charc creation. Here’s another big shocker, people do NOT want to play time-sync and remake each charc 3 times to get it right!!! People want to have the same chance of killing any player or monster as anyone else has. Having pro's and cons that require some convoluted race/class combo for 27 different people is NOT FUN!

    -People want to make a charc and understand what they are doing. They want their charc to be balanced with everyone else. People pick races based on how they look and their lore. Most people don’t even look at the race specific attributes and it always bites them in the ass down the road so they either start over or quit. Soooo, make them all start with the same stats and abilities but look different. Then give everyone access to the same skills. The actual skill based, level based, or combo system can vary greatly as long as it’s simple and everyone has access to the same skills (which can be refined/undone to avoid re-rolls). This gives every player the ability to make their charc look how they want and play how they want without having to worry about being nerfed/buffed/underpowered/overpowered/etc. A universal ability system also saves HUGE dev time because each class doesn't have to have the exact same spell with a different name and symbol. Your class would be what you make it based on the skills you choose to train in a skill based system or unlock in a level based system.

    End Game Content:
    What is end game content? It’s something to do when your character is completed. Most games over the years have had the awesome end game goal of absolutely nothing. Your end game content is re-roll. So your entire gaming experience is focused around a very job-like leveling treadmill...wow fun, the EQ devs who set this precedence should all be shot in the foot, twice. DAOC and WoW have both tried to force people into teams with some sort of Middle School PE type system. Many other games have done Race Wars which is essentially the same thing but even more retarded. Other games have used a combo or just gone with a more PvM related end game like gathering rare/shiny items. I guess it’s supposed to work like, whoever is committed enough to the godly time-sync wins somehow? Bottomline, people get bored of this and quit.

    Let’s go over some of the things that other games have done right in this regard. Many games have offered a guild warring system where guilds declare war and then can fight whenever they want. Other games have offered alternatives like crafting, treasure hunting, diplomacy, exploring, player housing, guild housing, player city and nation building through community interaction, goal oriented siege warfare, character customization, etc. One of the best ways to create end game content is to focus on it. The focus shouldn’t be on the trip to character completion; it should be on all the fun reasons to complete a character in the first place. Any of the above things could easily be incorporated into a game. Quite frankly, they all should be incorporated in some form. Game Updates and Expansions should be expanded end game content. In other words, additional things to do that you already haven’t done (ie not more leveling).

    One of the highly overlooked and best ways to build end game content is to focus on the character and build ownership. This can be achieved by incorporating your properly built Race/Class system. Allow people to customize EVERYTHING! They start by customizing their character and not having to re-roll. Then allow them to customize their weapons, armor, clothes, guild, house, city, nation, boat, mount, etc as they go through the game. So I can pick a big ass Red Demon as my race and then make him small with big ears, put a purple robe on him, with a yellow jesters hat, riding a blue sheep if I want to. I don't want to fucken look like everyone else! Is that too much to ask for?

    Then take this a step further in a more GW meets UO system where players have their own customizable Trophy rooms that can be instanced in space, put on a website, added to players in game house/castle/city/etc, or all three! When a player wins an event the trophy pops in there for everyone to see, when a guild declares defeat the log shows up in there, when you uncovered some elite treasure it pops up in there, when you craft your first high end sword it pops up in there, when you defeat some uber NPC it pops up in there, and so on. The possibilities are endless for events and ALL players want to show off their achievements!!! Character customization and player owned assets go way further to build customer loyalty than time spent leveling a charc that is totally useless once it reaches the end game.

    This covers the Brain Storming part of Making a MMO, Check Back Later for Part III of Part I: Making a Next Gen MMO: The Completed World!

  • #2
    I think ultimately this leads back to your original post in Part I.

    The design staff.

    If they're incompetent, everything that can go wrong will go wrong. If they're competent, a lot of these problems will *POOF* and vanish.

    Comment


    • #3
      I completely 110% agree with everything said, except for....


      Instanced battlegrounds under the good column. The same instanced battle grounds, set number vs set number is really... really lame.


      Very well said though Greg.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Deja TBH
        I completely 110% agree with everything said, except for....


        Instanced battlegrounds under the good column. The same instanced battle grounds, set number vs set number is really... really lame.


        Very well said though Greg.

        agree w/everything Deja said. The instanced BG IWOW are sub par. The only reason they appear good is because it was the best we could get for pvp in a game where there was a lot of other good but all in areas other than competitive PvP. We left GW because of the instancing. I think it is just another form of settling for par when all you have seen in a given area is Triple Bogie.

        Comment


        • #5
          IMO any game with instances is doomed to fail.

          Instances just put you in a shiny "I'm carefree and don't have to worry about anything" mode that just shouldn't exist.





          Trammel was an "instance" if you think about it...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Caramon
            IMO any game with instances is doomed to fail.

            Instances just put you in a shiny "I'm carefree and don't have to worry about anything" mode that just shouldn't exist.

            Trammel was an "instance" if you think about it...
            I would estimate that about 20% of the playerbase of MMOs choose this type of style and another 20% of the playerbase of MMOs are newbs and require this style. Many paying customers want to kill NPCs online in groups with friends in MMOs.

            WOW and GW are the two best selling MMOs in history and both are instance based.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jackal
              Originally posted by Caramon
              IMO any game with instances is doomed to fail.

              Instances just put you in a shiny "I'm carefree and don't have to worry about anything" mode that just shouldn't exist.

              Trammel was an "instance" if you think about it...
              I would estimate that about 20% of the playerbase of MMOs choose this type of style and another 20% of the playerbase of MMOs are newbs and require this style. Many paying customers want to kill NPCs online in groups with friends in MMOs.

              WOW and GW are the two best selling MMOs in history and both are instance based.

              GW's high rate of sales is off set by the fact they don't have subscription fees. Not taking anything away from GW's success, but other MMOs (with no instances) that have sold fewer copies of the game might still rival GW in terms of financial success.

              I think WoW's instance system isn't a major pull in attracting/keeping players. But that's my take.

              Comment


              • #8
                Has GW really been a financial success?

                I honestly didn't know that they still had a strong playerbase.... it seemed like the crowd was thinning when I last played (years?) ago and pretty much EVERYONE i know who played GW quit it at about the same time I did...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Caramon
                  Has GW really been a financial success?

                  I honestly didn't know that they still had a strong playerbase.... it seemed like the crowd was thinning when I last played (years?) ago and pretty much EVERYONE i know who played GW quit it at about the same time I did...
                  They are releasing a new GW expansion soon and are in the later stages of production on GW II.

                  NCsoft reported first quarter 2007 sales of KRW 84.7 billion (US$91.2 million), operating income of KRW 17.1 billion (US$18.4 million), pre-tax income of KRW 19.8 billion (US$21.3 million) and net income of KRW 14.1 billion (US$15.2 million) all on consolidated basis. Sales posted an increase of 9%. Operating income and pre-tax income both rose 96% respectively and net income surged 107%.
                  The percentage breakdown of sales by game title shows Lineage and Lineage II with 38% and 41%, respectively, followed by Guild Wars with 14% and City of Heroes/City of Villains with 7%.
                  14% of 91.2 million in a three month period...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Godamus
                    Originally posted by Jackal
                    Originally posted by Caramon
                    IMO any game with instances is doomed to fail.

                    Instances just put you in a shiny "I'm carefree and don't have to worry about anything" mode that just shouldn't exist.

                    Trammel was an "instance" if you think about it...
                    I would estimate that about 20% of the playerbase of MMOs choose this type of style and another 20% of the playerbase of MMOs are newbs and require this style. Many paying customers want to kill NPCs online in groups with friends in MMOs.

                    WOW and GW are the two best selling MMOs in history and both are instance based.

                    GW's high rate of sales is off set by the fact they don't have subscription fees. Not taking anything away from GW's success, but other MMOs (with no instances) that have sold fewer copies of the game might still rival GW in terms of financial success.

                    I think WoW's instance system isn't a major pull in attracting/keeping players. But that's my take.
                    Thats rediculous. WoWs Raid system is the only reason WoW exists for anyone over level 50. WoW's instanced raid system is their end game.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Instances just put you in a shiny "I'm carefree and don't have to worry about anything" mode that just shouldn't exist.
                      some games didn't do instances right, and to me that means, it just needs to be better applied.

                      Duels.
                      I like the idea of Instanced sieges 30 vs 30. instead of the standard 1000vs 30.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jackal
                        Thats rediculous. WoWs Raid system is the only reason WoW exists for anyone over level 50. WoW's instanced raid system is their end game.
                        If WoW's raid system/shiney accumulation system wasn't instanced do you think the game would have tanked?

                        Ya they might have lost a handful of subscriptions, maybe a million or 2...but the game's success will still be there.

                        I personally think WoW's doing so well cause Blizzard has a really good brand name, knows how to market, and keep the content entertaining enough so people continue to login.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Godamus
                          Originally posted by Jackal
                          Thats rediculous. WoWs Raid system is the only reason WoW exists for anyone over level 50. WoW's instanced raid system is their end game.
                          If WoW's raid system/shiney accumulation system wasn't instanced do you think the game would have tanked?

                          Ya they might have lost a handful of subscriptions, maybe a million or 2...but the game's success will still be there.

                          I personally think WoW's doing so well cause Blizzard has a really good brand name, knows how to market, and keep the content entertaining enough so people continue to login.
                          It wouldn't tank and I never said that it would. Going to your original point, it doesn't hurt their player base at all to go with instances which save the company millions and cut down a huge amount on lag. No one in WoW is saying, geez I wish these were competitive raids where a group of 40 other players could come PK me OR come rob me of a boss kill.

                          I cover this more in my next update so lets take this discussion there tomrrow.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            if you’re in Donkeypunch Dungeon fighting Tunkles
                            Lmfao! Make a game with this dungeon and mob as end game content and im sold! I also think UO's skill system was and is still the best.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Xaj
                              I also think UO's skill system was and is still the best.
                              UO's skill system (before they gay'd it up with donkey loving ninja skills) was sex only because

                              1) You can unattended macro w/o getting caught
                              2) 8x8 Macro
                              3) You can generally exploit skill levels (bladespirit tower for example) w/o repercussions

                              You take away both those things and the system is flawed.

                              Comment

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