The Dark Covenant - Havoc UnMerger?

[Jackal]

We noticed that the "troubled" folks from Havoc that had merged into DC were back under Havoc tags yesterday. Since neither guild appears to have a website I can’t tell why this happened. I'm posting because I wanted to get out ahead of this story since I had continually ripped on DC for allowing guys like Segundo and Bailly into their guild. I've removed them from our Cowards of Sartok List. In addition to removing DC I also removed Havoc because we ran into their reformed group including Segundo and Bailly and neither of them exploited or hacked. While I was messing with the Cowards list I removed all of the individuals that I haven’t seen in awhile so it'a up to date.

Cowards of Sartok Updated

[Loffa]

I'd first like to say hello to all here at OPP. Your players have by far demonstrated more skill in VG than any other guild or group I've encountered. Any others just bring numbers!

I am a bit suprised by the comments here though. Being in Havoc and briefly with DC I am very fimiliar with this situation. Since you appear to be interested I will shed some light onto this.

For starters - Both Havoc and DC go back a very long way. In fact these were 4 guilds originally on Varking. Prior to FFA merger True Chaos and Dominion formed Havoc, while Drunken Lords of Vengeance merged to DC. All have been a pretty close group, helping each other with just about everything.

Unfortunately Havoc leadership eventually quit the game. Sick of constantly facing exploiters and hacks, many members quit too. Out of those that stayed - some decided to get even and went about finding hacks themselves. This isn't what Havoc is about so soon these members found their way to Ebonlore. Our numbers dwindled more and more with others going to Bladesworn and more Ebonlore (not all were exploiters though).

Those of us left in Havoc knew we were in a sinking ship. The problem was we didnt like any of the other guilds enough to join. Our only option we saw was to merge with DC. The problem with this was DC is also dying. Once again no leadership.

Now Havoc was more or less neutral to all but Ebonlore. Joining DC this quickly changed. We were KOS to pretty much every guild. Us old Havoc guys couldn't get crafts from guilds like Xanit or Bladesworn anymore and DC sure as shit wasn't helping. So we could be judged by our own names and not the stupid DC tags a few of us left. No hard feelings just felt better off on our own.

Now I have no idea what the retards at DC are doing or thinking but you are giving them way to much credit. Those of any respect should be joining Havoc shortly. The rest - Fenochias, Incarnadyne.. can go straight to hell.

For some unkown reason while trying to lend a hand on some admantine a group of DC thought it would be fun to attack me. I've never shown agression towards any of them and never planned to. When it became apparent they weren't going to stop I dropped them. End of DC/Havoc!

Now as to Segundo and Bailly.. for starters the real Segundo is gone. The person playing him now is a good friend and a respectable person. Bailly is a RL friend and I find it very odd that you target him. What did he do to you?

[Jackal]

I appreciate you coming here with a respectful attitude. It's a breath of fresh air given what we're used to dealing with these Ebontalk guys.

We have had numerous run-ins with Segundo and Bailly where they were using 3rd party's to move while mezed/rooted/impaired. It's extremely hard to SS people when they're doing this due to the split second frame you have to hit the button and then hope to get the SS through any lag. On 2 occasions we managed to get some screenshots of them doing this.

I can assure you that the below are just single examples of a playstyle that both players exploited for some time. In nearly every run-in they would both abuse game mechanics to exploit and 3rd party hacks. Like I said above, our last few fights with them have been on the level.

Since you're registered you can view our archived VG posts:

http://www.opponline.net/viewtopic.php?t=7050
http://www.opponline.net/viewtopic.php?t=7195

[Loffa]

I'm not going to attempt arguing against what you've posted. I wasn't there so I simply can't explain what happened.

I can only hope that what you believe occured isn't the truth. The players you see in Havoc now (which includes Bailly and Segundo) are not trying to cheat you. I've played 90% of my time in VG with Bailly and never heard of him using hacks. Once again I can't explain what happened that day though. If it was some bs I apologize.

I can't validate Segundo's actions either, but like I said earlier, the Segundo now is a different person. I have a lot of respect for who plays him now. The only thing he may have a problem with is the use of charm. This is a touchy thing since I personally have asked the bard class lead, the dev, and multiple GMs about it. Each time I am told it's functioning as intended. Regarless - it's not necessary and best to leave out. I will admit using this myself against one of your players once - Prak (sp?) - I'm sorry. Dont jump us while harvesting a pristine though that's just poor. I just wanted to see you fall to your death as you tried to lev away

Anyway, I had no idea that Havoc was so disliked. Any of your members are more than welcome to try and get to know us, hopefully we can change how you feel about Havoc.

[Jackal]

We often call people out when they act dumb for our own amusement. We've seen all of this over and over for 10+ years so it's just funny. I definitly wouldn't say we dislike anyone over a video game. It would be safer to say we often feel sorry for people who feel the need to cheat and tear a gaming community apart just to feel better about themselves....

OPP just wants to compete with everyone else on even ground.

[Loffa]

Thats a wonderful screenshot. Too bad this person does not speak with the rest of Vanguard's staff as his comments seem to be based more on personal opinion than anything else.

We've received GM letters saying Tzigone is not a triple shaman too, you have ones that say he is (we've thought this since Varking). Same thing, GMs say something different each time you hear from them. Regardless, I do not attempt using charm unless the person presents themself as a complete scumbag. I will do my best to work on Segundo too.

I can only hope you are without doubt that there's no shit in your stable as you seem rather on the up and up. It's quite disappointing when someone who you respect has their ethics in question.

[Jackal]

Just fought Cenwulf, Bailly, and Amenazador in a group. All players except Cenwulf were using 3rd party's to teleport/move while snared/rooted/mezzed. They were also abusing a number of exploits.

[Loffa]

Look, I came here showing respect and all you can do is try to throw out more accusations. You're wrong. None of those guys ever use 3rd party. I dont care what you say, it's simply not true. This is fact. I spend everyday in vent with them, none are cheaters.

Aleviate is what it is. Go ahead and try to say your group hasn't used it.

[Funhat]

It's fact because you know them personally, yet were not present during said events?

Fact must be a different definition in your eyes. Opinion and conjecture is not fact, chappy.

[Loffa]

I'm not allowed to use my observations to form an opinion, but you all are? That's all you're declaring anyway - your opinions of what may have occured. No one can be right but you? Is that how it works?

The fact that I know Bailly in RL and have for the past 20+ years means I know quite a lot more of his character than you do. The fact that I have physically sat next to him and watched him play allows me to believe 100% that you're wrong. Your right I wasn't there (in game) chappy! I was at his house watching. I feel pretty confident in my opinion!

[Funhat]

You weren't there, we were. That's all I'm saying. You can guess all you want, we had first hand experience. There's no reason for your friends to exploit against you anyways.

I find it funny how before it was just your opinion, however now you're saying during this time period you were sitting behind them in real life. Which statement is convenient?

[Jackal]

since you know him IRL, have you asked him how often he uses 3rd party's and why?

[Loffa]

Saturday morning I was at Bailly's and its Jackal's reference to him hacking that moring I am refering to. Anything before that happened before, you're right I wasn't there, but this day I was. I said before as I will say again, Bailly in particular was not cheating.

The group you see together in Havoc are here because we don't cheat. We've had plenty of opportunity to join our guys in Ebon, but refuse to becuase we don't want to be associated with any of that. We're not the kind of players you claim we are. I really don't know what else to tell you. Seems you won't be changing your opinions either way.

[Loffa]

since you know him IRL, have you asked him how often he uses 3rd party's and why?

wow - is this how the conversation breaks down? Very respectable bunch!

[Jackal]

as you said, you know 100% that he wasn't using anything

as I've said I know 100% that he "has" before

so it seems like a fair question. I don't understand why people don't just say,: "yes I've used 3rd party's before and I won't do it anymore". They often try to deny ever using them which completely ruins their credibility.