The De-Evolution of the American Gamer:

[Jackal]

I wrote The De-Evolution of the SOE PvPer: awhile ago and I wanted to take it a step further. Since Ultima Online’s death and Shadowbane’s failure American gamers have been pushing MMO Devs to make easy games that look cool. Then take it further, compare popular games of the 80s and 90s to the popular games of the 00s (<- btw typing 00’s is weird). It seems like the further back you go, the more competitive games were. Games are shorter, shinier, more simplified, and generally easier to play, but they do “look cooler”. Furthermore, games increasingly lack good multiplayer which brings me back to what prompted this post.

Added "Custom" tab to the server browser
* Added options for servers who want to become custom games: Disable critical hits (tf_weapon_criticals), eliminate respawn times (mp_disable_respawn_times), and raise maxplayers above 24

You take a game like TF2 which has been changed to be easier to play since TFC (Team Fortress 1). They removed grenades which were hard to get and had to be thrown carefully and added invulnerability, invisibility, and opened up the maps to make it easier to hide around corners and do things like insta-kill with snipers and spies. Sound like any MMO’s we’ve played lately? Game companies are changing games to fit a win-at-all-costs-profile. Complaints came due to the more competitive nature of the FPS gamer. So they added a way for hosts to disable crit hits on their servers. After the patch I was dumbfounded to see that there were NO American based servers that had disabled crits. So I went out searching to find out why and I couldn’t even find much of a discussion about it. I did find one decent discussion about it on the -Q- Clan Forum and replied (think I'll get flamed? lol). I went through the posts and the feedback was mixed evenly. Here are a few choice quotes from the people who like Crits:

One thing to remember is that with such a class based game, the crits balance out a lot of the classes. When you're complaining of get hit in the face with a crit rocket, it's doesn't seem much like it, but what of the Engineer defending his dispenser or SG against a Soldier? Without crit shotgun blasts, he would hardly stand a chance. The same thing could be said of Soldier vs. Heavy+Medic fights. With a crit, the Soldier has a decent opportunity to take out the both of them, and a good chance of killing at least the Heavy. Without crits, he's not going to be able to take out the heavy--unless the Heavy completely sucks. While it's pretty hard to do, try to trust Valve a little bit...they've got it pretty well balanced...

This guy compares a Soldier vs. Engineer as a need for a crit? If a soldier shoots an engy in the face at the same time that an engy shoots a soldier in the face the soldier should win every time. Under the current system a tie (they kill each other) is likely. So, engys run faster, can build teleporters, dispensers, and guns BUT SHOULD be able to go toe to toe missile launcher vs. shotgun???

Then he goes on to compare a Heavy weapons guy with a Medic healing him vs. a single Soldier. Why does there need to be an advantage for the underdog? Doesn’t that completely contradict the meaning? Why play smart and skillfully when you have a fair chance of getting a lucky shot to kill a better player or set of better players? It sure seems like an imbalance AND a crutch for mentally incapable gamers.

Since I manage to string crits more than most people, I'm rather fond of them. They really help your kills per minute stat. I'd like if it they generated a stat on most crits. I might be the #1 crit person on the server. Its likely I'm the #1 soldier who gets the most crits. I might even out crit some heavies/pyros.

If you can predict crits, and effectually use them, then its unlikely you want them removed. There is a couple clan secrets I'm gonna need to let you in on.

There’s some ways to increase your crit chance but the best way (simply put) is to kill people and stay alive. The things are still pure luck and the fact that a supposed “good player” would want crits makes me thing he’s full of shit and not a “good player” at all. A skilled player wouldn’t feel the need to brag about how they get more insta kills than other players, sorry scrub. This retard is the type of gamer that we founded this guild to kill. If he could figure out a way to argue that he loses better than you he would.

The only real results you will get by taking out Crits is making the Demo and Soldier seem more powerful! Once a Shotgun/pistol/minigun/melee weapon doesnt crit there is nothing that damages like them. Soldiers and Demos already know they can stand toe to toe and kill any HW that isnt critting as long as they arent point blank. Scouts frankly dont kill if they dont crit usually and I wouldnt want to see a Pyro without crits!

This pounds my point home. The reason that classes exist in games is to give different types of gamers an option to play something that more suits their style. For example: the Scout can double jump and run much faster than other classes while capping points twice as fast. This is their advantage. The character should be played to those advantages. The fact that we see Scouts double jumping over a heavy and two shotting him before he can react shows massive imbalance, NOT skill. Here’s a shocker…Heavies, Demos, and Soldiers SHOULD do more damage because that is their main advantage! Fucken stupid people are frustrating…

So what does this have to do with the “American Gamer”? After a few days of custom “nocrit” being live in TF2 I have seen two American based servers go turn it on and both turned it back off. I have seen about 20 Euro based servers turn it on and leave it on and no Asian servers. America seems to have changed from the land of competition and accomplishment, to the land of meaningless/pointless macaroni awards. I don’t enjoy the Asian style: lies, cheat, steal, and even “pay-for” model of “success”. I fear that Americans are leaning that direction while Europeans push away.

Take games like Neocron and Eve and compare them to games like WoW and Lineage…See the difference yet? When FPS games try to patch out skill I can't help but lose hope for MMOs and RTS games.

It seems like people increasingly want to be a ninja sniper that insta-kills everyone so they can log off with a false sense of accomplishment and take that back to their hollow failure of a life. Games should be played casually for fun, not to replace people's lacking self esteem IRL, so I say fuck them all, lets all be pirates and sword fight drunk! YARRR!!!

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[Blaze]

I am NOT surprised that eurogamers have taken this option and turned off the crits - and left it! Sadly, European gamers have always had the edge on real gameplay and skill over american gamers: or atleast it seems that way to me in the FPS world. Many of the Super great clans from various FPS games were european and even the european play styles are much different.

Maybe one day america will snap out of it!

This is, of course, just my opinion based on personal observation and here-say of whats going on in various other games.

[Fats]

in my experience a gamers playstyle generally tends to reflect their cultural background. North Americans are very independent mavericks, the ultimate motivation is "success" or winning. That's why you see many that play mostly for themselves, give up easily when losing and like easy victories. For example the other day in TF2 I destroyed an enemy teleporter exit a teammate had been camping. She just wanted some easy kills, but had she failed we might've had an enemy and an active teleporter behind our line. After I destroyed it she cussed me out then threw a fit and left the server

I wouldn't say Europeans are more or less "competitive" because they can be just as independent with just as strong a desire to win, but they are also more willing to abide by rules, more willing to lose, and have a more relaxed attitude. I think that's why they generally promote individual skill and fairplay competition over the win at all costs mantra

And then with most of Asia skill is directly defined as winning, any code of honor, etiquette or indidvidual indentity is irrelevant and ignored because the only thing that matters in the end is your team gaining the big \/ ictory

[Jackal]

i agree with that ^

[Joshius]

That was beautiful man.

[Jackal]

I got most of this from Sud on the -Q- Forums:

There's two polls on the GotFrag website:
http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/polls/1192
Crits:
-no crits = 75%
-keep crits = 24%

http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/polls/1174
Competitive TF2 Format:
6v6 + Class Res. + Crits = 19%
6v6 + Class Res. + No Crits = 54%
8v8 + Class Res. + Crits = 7%
8v8 + Class Res. + No Crits = 9%
8v8 + No Class Res. + Crits = 8%

http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/story/41709 is an interesting read as well.

"While the North American 6v6 leagues have floundered through their first seasons, the premiere European ladder, ESL's Major Series, is already going through their second round of qualifiers for what will no doubt be an exciting 2nd season of 6v6 play. Based purely on a comparison of the two scenes, it's clear that whatever Europe is doing, they've got it right. The time has come for the North American leagues like CEVO to accept the error of their ways and make the move to the European set of rules - namely, 6v6 with class restrictions.. and no crits."

The article he posted that quote from is a great read. There IS a strong competitive segment of players left out there and based on the numbers they will pay to compete in tournaments if they're done right. Gaming Co's need to stop listening to the squeaky wheel retards and do what is logical, competitive, and fair.

[Godamus]

I don't think you can (nor is it fair) to mainly use FPS games as examples behind your reasoning and than apply them to "gaming" in general.

Multiplayer FPS (and to a degree RTS) games always has a winner and a loser. The competitiveness is inherent in the game design itself. MMOs aren't necessary designed to always have a winner/loser because combat isn't the penultimate goal. Although it does play a big part in many games.

Better title would have been the devolution of the "competitive" gamer.

P.S.

And then with most of Asia skill is directly defined as winning, any code of honor, etiquette or indidvidual indentity is irrelevant and ignored because the only thing that matters in the end is your team gaining the big \/ ictory

This is a ludicrous claim!

Putting aside your crazy assertions that Asian gamers have no common ettiquette...

How can you assault and label the "North American are independent mavericks" concept and than go do a complete 180 degrees and attack an individual's ability to sacrafice "individual identity."

Either you want the team player or you don't. You can't have it both ways.

[Jackal]

I don't like Asians so I agree with Fats!

[Funhat]

Sadly I'd still take an Asian over a French.. but agreed, go away chankadoo

[Fats]

It is possible to be an independent minded person yet still work as part of a larger cohesive unit. Westerners tend to favour the individual over the collective to the point of being selfish, and in the East the reverse is true to the point that the self is insignificant. But there are still individuals in their respective cultures who are self-sacrificing or fiercely independent. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive

The comment on etiquette was not in reference to a code between members of the same group but between peers and competitors. Simply put most Asian groups do not respect or adhere to "unwritten rules" established by the larger community, especially rivals, unless approached directly with an agreement. A large part of that is due to differing concepts of what is and is not proper etiquette and behaviour due to cultural upbringing.

Obviously these observations are generalizations based on my experiences and not everyone will fit as neatly into the boundaries as I have defined them, so... proverbial grain of salt

Multiplayer FPS (and to a degree RTS) games always has a winner and a loser. The competitiveness is inherent in the game design itself. MMOs aren't necessary designed to always have a winner/loser because combat isn't the penultimate goal.

Competition is necessarily inherent in any multiplayer game of any kind, it's not unreasonable to extrapolate behavioural patterns from one school of gaming and apply to another when conditions are similar.

[Godamus]

I was going to write a paragraph or 2, but decided it was too much hassle!

I'll conclude with this:

You can't generalize an entire culture (or gamers within an entire culture to be more precise) based upon a short-lived experience with one game. While you did add your own disclaimer at the end, I believe you are smart enough to know it should not have been necessary because you shouldn't possess such faulty generalizations in the first place.

What you witnessed in (the game that shall not be named!) was more a product of the environment and the mechanics within and less so related to individuals and their behavior/cultural upbringing.

[Jackal]

generalizations are produced by fact, however politically incorrect due to the few exceptions to the rule.

Since I don't care what the exception thinks I generalize.

[Fats]

You can't generalize an entire culture (or gamers within an entire culture to be more precise) based upon a short-lived experience with one game

I fully agree, but you forget that I live in the city with the largest Asian population outside Asia. There are entire districts in which the culture is so strongly Eastern that many residents don't even speak English and shop signs are written in twenty varieties of squiggly letters. I'm quite familiar with the culture. As far as my gaming experience, that almost spans my entire life from foursquare & capture the flag in grade school to online games in mid 96 and beyond. Warlords III, UO, GuildWars, Lineage, Warcraft 3, TF2 and of course Shadowbane are just a few of the relevant major ones in the last decade. Throughout all of this there has been a common thread that I can safely base my conclusions on, so disagree and offer a counter argument if you like but don't attempt to discredit my experience.

What you witnessed in (the game that shall not be named!) was more a product of the environment and the mechanics within and less so related to individuals and their behavior/cultural upbringing.

This game which I've already named just so happens to epitomize my point. Even barring the experiences we shared in that games later periods, I actually played on the Asian server and witnessed a significant paradigm shift in attitude and playstle that repesents the very things I've been saying here. Other factors may have played a role, but the impact of cultural background was definitively present

[Yaz]

He foursqaured your ass.

[Godamus]

I'm quite familiar with the culture.

Look. I'm not trying to assault the integrity of that statement, but I do find it suspicious. I don't doubt the VC/BC area of Canada houses an immensely high Asian population (You guys just dedicated June 1st of every year as a holiday to celebrate a Chinese TV Star! GG! For that alone you get cookies)

Now while I'm certain you know more about the Asian cultures within the world than say... some random hill billy living in ... ohhh let's say... Idaho, who starts every sentence with Howdy and ends it with Yee-haw. Somehow I doubt your grasp and understanding of the culture is so thorough and profound that you can make your earlier generalizations.

I'm sorry, but unless you live on the 2nd floor of Chang Chang's Noodle Xpress shop in Chinatown, I loathe to believe you know a culture that well.

Of course I make these statements based solely upon my own interaction with you and noticing a high degree of difference in understanding of the culture between myself (someone who's immersed in the culture in question) and you. Hey, I could be wrong! You might actually be some secret connoisseur of all things Asian. Somehow I doubt it though.

Throughout all of this there has been a common thread that I can safely base my conclusions on, so disagree and offer a counter argument if you like but don't attempt to discredit my experience.

I'm sorry if you felt I was discrediting your experience. I wasn't. I have zero doubt you are an avid gamer. What I find questionable is your level of experience with Asian gamers, which would need to be on an insanely high level for you to make your previous assertions.

I don't doubt all the games you mentioned in the previous post has had its fair share of Asian gamers, but save for Shadowbane, I somehow doubt there were enough of them for you to form your generalization on how a culture interacts. Personal experiences with UO and WoW confirms this belief. (And 4-square as well, because no true Asian would let an opponent walk off the 4-square block after a match alive. We're renown for our ability to literally destroy an opponent. It's like some universal law!)

This game which I've already named just so happens to epitomize my point. Even barring the experiences we shared in that games later periods, I actually played on the Asian server and witnessed a significant paradigm shift in attitude and playstle that repesents the very things I've been saying here. Other factors may have played a role, but the impact of cultural background was definitively present

And as I have stated previously, what you witnessed in Shadowbane was more due to the mechanics/environment than individuals/culture. You know as much as I how SB had one of the craziest "risk" factors involved in PvP in any game period. (You could literally lose months' worth of work in a single day. Your guild/whatever would almost certainly be destroyed if you lost a war in that game. Save for a few exceptions) Such high risk naturally promotes the behavior we all saw in the game.

I don't doubt culture/upbringing plays a part in every gamer. But to attribute what we saw as mainly the result of culture/upbringing is ridiculous and narrow-minded.

I'm sure you could cite example after example of Asian coalitions that dominated and strangled a server using whatever means necessary, and I could likewise cite example after example of non-Asian coalitions that did the same.

The logical conclusion anyone with a sane mind would reach is that culture has little to do with that.


(P.S. Fei Fei Day? WTF were you Canadians thinking?!)